Brave and Well: Conversations helping mental health professionals build a sustainable, profitable, and values-aligned business

Building a Brand That Lasts with Kristin Moses

• Vanessa Newton • Season 1 • Episode 18

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So many of us in private practice put branding and marketing on the bottom of our task lists. We tell ourselves it isn’t important or it’s too expensive. But what if it’s a key to actually get us where we want to go?

In this episode, I’m joined by Kristen Moses, owner of DesignGood, for a conversation about all the ways branding can support your therapy business.

Tune in as we explore:

  • How branding helps you be visible to the right people for you
  • Why sharing yourself in your brand attracts clients who are looking to share tough parts of their lives with you
  • Creating a brand that is flexible and can grow with you over time
  • Advice for therapists just starting out who might not have the funding to purchase branding and website support


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More from Vanessa:

Hi everyone, welcome to the Brave and Well podcast. I'm your host, Vanessa Newton. I'm a group practice owner and social worker. I'm also a Latina entrepreneur, mom, and recovering perfectionist. On this podcast, we teach mental health professionals how to build sustainable, profitable, and values aligned businesses. Here you'll hear all about decolonizing the business side. Music. To share their stories. Our time together will be raw, honest, vulnerable, and held together by joy. If you like what you hear, subscribe to our newsletter at bravenwell.com slash newsletter dash sign up. Thank you for listening. Music. Hey everyone, welcome back to the Brave and Well podcast. I'm your host, Vanessa Newton, licensed therapist, entrepreneur, and group practice owner. Today, we're gonna be talking to Kristen Moses, owner and founder of Design Good. Design Good builds memorable brands for meaningful businesses. With more than two decades of experience, founder Kristen Moses and our creative team provide complete brand building services, including design, content writing, and website creation. Their agency's proven business and brand method is designed to help service businesses and passionate entrepreneurs leverage their brands for long-term success. I'm so excited for this episode and I can't wait to dive in. Welcome everyone to the Brave and Well podcast. I'm Vanessa Newton, licensed social worker, entrepreneur, and group practice owner. And today I'm so excited because we are interviewing Kristen Moses, founder of Design Good. And I'm excited to jump in to all things marketing and branding. Thanks for being here, Kristen. Of course, I'm excited to chat too. I'm super passionate about this topic, obviously, and we love working with therapists. So I'm excited to share what we've learned and what we know in regards to branding in this space. Awesome. Well, to start off, tell us about yourself and your business. Yeah, so we are truly a branding agency. So we really define brands by everything somebody thinks about when they think about you or your business. So it's what you look like, it's what you sound like. And most importantly, it's how you make people feel that we've been doing this work for over 18 years and just in the last probably four or five years, we've really started working a lot with therapist, which is why we've connected. But we really have a niche in the space in the sense that we are helping our clients kind of think about their business while they're thinking about their brand. Because for us, brands are, you know, we want them to look beautiful and sound beautiful, of course, but we really use them to solve business goals for our clients and help them achieve things that they want for their business and for their lives. So in that sense, I think it's, you know, bigger than a brand. It's also like being really intentional about what you want your business to look like and what you want your life to look like and how you use your brand to facilitate those things. Yeah. And you're based in Austin, right? We are all over. Yeah, actually our clients are all over the United States and all over the world. For that matter, we do have a couple of therapists in other countries that we've been working with too, but yeah, it really doesn't matter where clients are because our process and method is really the same. Yeah, definitely outside of Austin, but we love our Austin people too. Yeah. When clients come to you seeking services and support, what is the biggest thing or the biggest challenge that they come to you with. So I would really say, you know, in the therapy space, it's two things. Initially, when I talk to people, when they call us, when they find us, they typically have seen a project that we've done and they're kind of like, oh, my God, I didn't know, you know, this was a thing. Our therapists could look like this or they're just really attracted to the brand that they saw that we did with somebody else. But really, what I find with them is that they don't necessarily consider themselves a brand and sometimes therapists don't even consider themselves a business. So it's getting them to really have that thought of like, I am a business, and I am also a brand. So that's a big kind of conversation that we have with them, because a lot of them. You know, have potentially been with a group practice for a while, they're going out on their own. So they've never really made that distinction of now that I'm a business, now I'm a brand. And then the other bigger piece that we see is a lot of our therapist clients are reaching out to us because they're coming off of insurance, they want to go to private pay, or they're trying to raise their rate to a premium because their experience and expertise really warrants that. So that's where branding really comes in and is truly beneficial because it is that thing that like validate potentially, you know, the pricing and also the rate that they want to charge. And if they are going to private pay from insurance, sometimes that is a different audience that we're speaking to, which, you know, just to be honest, sometimes it is. And that audience is like being a little bit more intentional with how they select somebody that they're giving that amount of money to. So that's where your brand really can come in because. When somebody comes to a website and it feels really thoughtful and connected and they can see themselves in the brand and they almost feel like they got to meet the person just in a digital space, it's just such a big reflection of what their business is and who they are. And it just It just gets that person more comfortable. Already when they reached out. So when they get on that phone call with you, they're 80% there already. They're like, I feel really comfortable with this person. I feel like I got to meet them. I feel like they're a right fit. So there's actually a lot of really cool things that happen on the business side of you attracting more clients, you having to do less convincing or less selling, which nobody likes doing that. Yeah. And you're just getting more qualified leads, again, because somebody really gets a good sense of who you are just by, you know, visiting your website or Instagram feed. And Instagram is a wonderful way to connect with people. But ultimately, you know, we want to get people back to your website so they can read more about what you do specifically, you know, the audience that you work with the tools that you use, there's a lot of layers, you know, to therapist and therapy practices, because they'll work with a specific audience, and then they work with specific tools and methodologies within that space. So really making sure that the people that land on their website or read the brand or engage with the brand can kind of self-identify themselves as the right fit. And then being so clear on, this is who I work with, this is what I do, these are the things I'm great at, really help in that kind of evaluation process on both ends. It connects you with clients that are right fit and will pay for the rate that you want to pay that makes you feel, you know. Supported by your business, and vice versa, it makes them feel really confident, you know, in reaching out to you. So there's a lot of cool things that happen with this process. And it's just about being really intentional with the people that you want to work with and really communicating all of your value and experience and expertise. Yeah, I mean, I love that you're so well-versed in what therapists need and what they're building, right? Because not many people are. You know, I, when I first started my private practice in 2015, I just built it by myself because I was like, I don't know how anyone else could help me articulate this, right? So I'm just going to throw something up because I need to get started and I need to be visible online. But I think the thing that scared me the most was writing copy for the website, right? And figuring out what what to say, and you speaking about clinicians who are entering the field, either they just want to start a business or they're coming from a group practice setting, but also the pricing model. Right now, it's not many therapists take insurance, and so if you are a self-pay practice and you're trying to retain clients who are going and able to pay out of pocket, your website better be a really strong representation of who you are, your business, what you do, why you're the right person for them. And they should be able to find that all online. Absolutely. And I love that you use the word visibility. That's the word that we use a lot, too. And it's just making yourself... A brand helps you be visible to the right people. And again, once that person lands on your website or within your brand, they need to be able to figure out the things that you just said very quickly. So that part. About copy, we very much understand. And we actually... When we work with clients, we do have a very set process for like diving deep with them in the beginning. We do a whole discovery process. And that's the thing I think holds up people the most when they're ready to create their brand is like, I don't know what to say. And I don't know how somebody else could help me figure out what to say. I have to figure that out on my own. And that's where people get very stuck. And then they stay in this pattern. And it's okay. We totally understand, you know, budgets and people having to do what you have to do in the beginning to really get a website up. But if you have the means to invest in having somebody work with you and help you with that stuff, it is truly beneficial because, again, going back to, we're not just creating a brand, we're helping you think through your business and how you want to communicate with your audience. And having a professional there to step through the information that you're providing. I mean, we find that when we work with therapists, they're very smart and they have so much to share. And it's a very collaborative process in working with them. Like we're helping them write the copy, but they do a great job of filling in like, you know, this is what I want to say, this is how I do it. And we just kind of edit it and mold it into a framework that works for an audience. So really, you know, our process is to what is, what does your audience need to read and hear and know and understand in order to make the decision to, you know, book a consultation with you or take the next step. So our job really is to filter all the information that you already know and that you already have into brand language because brand language is very different than, you know, anything else. It needs to be a little bit more concise. It needs to be clear. It needs to be to the point, you know, but we also want to be mindful of giving people enough information, because actually, there's a really amazing opportunity with websites and brands for therapists, because people actually read your websites, because they're in, you know, some type of pain or some type of distress, or, you know, some type of discomfort, and they want to know that they're going to be taken care of, and they're looking for some type of relief. So when they do go to a website that does have the information on there that makes them feel like that person is competent, that they can help them, that they understand what they're going through. It just gets them to that, you know, yes quicker. And it's also, it's not even so much about the yes, that you. As a therapist, being able to help that person and to be able to be paired with somebody that really needs you. And I think that's the secondary gift and benefit of us doing what we do is that we're able to help people connect, therapists connect with the people that really need them more quickly. And there's just tons of benefits from that too. Therapists may get more work quickly because of the work that we've done or creating this brand. And they're able to charge that they want to because whether we like it or not, there is something about perception. People perceive things that look and sound a certain way to have a greater value, to have more confidence, to have more credibility. So we can really use how your brand looks and feel to your advantage. And it's not about taking advantage of people or tricking them, but it's just creating more alignment between the work that you're doing and what you're reflecting to the world because I feel like all the developers I speak to when we do our initial calls are doing this incredible work and they're extremely well and they're all good at what they do. But their brand does not reflect that. So they may be doing amazing work in the world and then somebody lands on their website and they're kind of like, I don't know, it feels a little dated, it feels a little like thrown together, it feels like a template or I've seen this before and I just am not getting a sense of who they are and they may quickly move to the next person and to the next person until they land on a website or engage with a brand that speaks directly to them. And it's not that there's. Therapists are doing, you know, not doing great work in the world. It's just like that again, that immediate perception by the user may be like, it feels dated, they may be dated, or it doesn't feel modern, they may be like, living in the past in their business. So we don't ever want somebody to judge you and your business based on a brand when there's something that could have been done about that. And it's really just taking a thoughtful approach to communicating, again, your value, what you do, who you do it for, what you're so great at, and what people can expect from working with you. I mean, everything you're saying is so like, I'm just like, yes, yes, yes, because it's true. I mean, as therapists, we have a hard time valuing ourselves and communicating that value. And what I've seen with so many folks that I do consultation and coaching with is that they're afraid to be who they are and present who they are on their website, right? They get so bogged down by the jargon and the credentials and the experiences. And I always like to ask people, if I was someone coming to you and reading your website the way that you're presenting it now, I don't know a single thing about what you're saying, right? So talk to me the way, or speak on your website the way that you would talk to a client. What do you want them to know? As a group practice owner, we have several clinicians on our team who, We often ask them, we want you to get personal. What are you parts of your identity that you want folks to know? What are your hobbies? What are the things you're passionate about? And a lot of folks are very timid about that, right? They're afraid to show up as themselves for fear of what other people might think. And I think there is a level of risk that you have to be willing to take to not just have a website, but to run a business, right? Like, and I always say that if you're not ready to show up as yourself, then I don't know that you're ready to run a business because that's the ultimate exposure. Instagram can be taken away from us any second, right? But our website is ours and it lives there and that's how you're going to build visibility and SEO and that's what people are always going to come back to. Your Instagram is not yours. That could be gone at any moment. Yeah, absolutely. I love everything that you just said and also I tell our clients that too, is like, the only thing you own is your, your brand, your website, your email list, because Instagram can do whatever it wants. And it will. And like really protecting your brand, like that is something we work with clients a lot too, on building your email list now, because it's really setting yourself up for success for things you may want to do in the future because a lot of the therapists we work with now, you know, they're happy seeing clients. That may be all that they want to do, but some of them do want to, you know, add groups. They want to write a book. They want to create a workshop. Those things may be two or three years out. But when you're ready to do those things, you need to have an audience for that, and you need a direct way to connect with your audience. So that is something we always encourage our clients to start doing now, because it's really the things I unknowingly did in my business 10 years ago, 12 years ago, 15 years ago, that have really set us up for success now. And it was like being really authentic, because at some point, I started talking to our clients, like you just said, how I would talk to them when I get on the phone with them. We created our brand to be very attractive to the people that we want to work with and the people we want to work with, we really say we work with purposeful businesses. So people that help other people. So obviously a lot of therapists, but a lot of coaches, a lot of personal development, personal transformation. And so our brand is intentionally designed and created to reflect us, but to also be warm and welcoming to the people, you know, that we want to work with. And one of the things that I thought about when you were saying what you just said about. It's really hard for therapists to put themselves out there, which is so interesting because these are very warm, connected people. And they never really consider what would it be like to show up as that person online and digitally. And I understand Instagram feels like you're doing that, but Instagram is just this quick grid. Your website is where people are going to engage, spend time get to know you and this is a huge thing that we really have to coach our. Therapist clients and coach clients through too is photography. I know that's a big deal. I mean, I don't like photos taken of myself. Nobody likes getting photos taken, but it is that thing that helps people feel like connected to you and like they got to meet you. So if you look through a lot of the websites that we have created for therapists, we always encourage them to show more of themselves online. And sometimes, you know, that is naturally done with photography. This does not have to be all like staged headshots that can be them walking in a field that they really love or a park or a coffee shop or meditation or journaling or doing things again that are really true and authentic to them. But showing that person because you've got to think your client is going to show you every part of themselves, right? So it's, it's just honoring what they're going to be giving it, giving to you. And also, you know, making them feel comfortable with showing them all parts of yourselves, of you being like, this is who I am. These are the things I can help you with. These are all the tools I have in my toolbox. These are the people that I love working with and I've had a lot of experience helping so that connection really happens by creating this really, I know the word authentic is overused, but authentic, connected, magnetic brand. And that's what we talk to our clients a lot about is like, really adding that layer of authenticity, connection, purpose, clarity, and clarity is huge. Getting to the point very quickly. What you mentioned about, you know, a lot of therapists go straight into credentials, credentials, training, that is obviously important. And we, we want to mention those things, but people just want to feel seen and heard within a brand. So reverse engineering, kind of like how we speak to their audience and like what you said again, what would make them feel comfortable? What would make them say like, Hey, this is the right therapist for me. And people just... Appreciate that so much that if they could go straight to your website, get that information, feel good about setting up that appointment. And also you've got to understand a lot of therapists are getting clients two ways. A lot of them are referrals. A lot of them are like, I see this therapist, I love them. That person is still going to go to your website. And still wants to read the things that I just said. And then a lot of people are starting at at Psychology Today and they're filtering through that and they're clicking, clicking, clicking, clicking. And if you don't have a website, I think that is a little bit damaging to your brand. They're just making a decision based off a profile. And sometimes they're making decisions just based on price, not on your actual experience and expertise and value. But that said, if they are looking at 10, 20, 30 therapists from Psychology Today and they are going to your website, there's gonna be like 20 websites that they just glaze over, click off of quickly until they land on one that actually speaks to them. And it's always gonna be that brand that connects to them that they're gonna at least reach out to or at least wanna engage in and at least read the entire website. So this work really does have an impact on your actual business and bottom line of you getting the right clients, you getting more of the clients that you want, you building your credibility, you setting yourself up for future successes and future wins. We understand that you have to do what you have to do when you get started. I did it too when I started my business. But if you can invest in working with somebody and especially, you know, I hear a lot from therapists, like, I just don't know about the design part. I can't design, I can't write. And I'm like, why could you? I can't do therapy. You know, I'm not a therapist. I would never think I'm gonna get four self-help books and then I'm cured. I would hire the expert to like help me. So yeah, there's just a lot that this work can really advance where you're at in your business. It's the difference between you getting where you wanna be in one year versus three to five years. Cause you're just accelerating the process of being visible, people finding you, people taking you seriously, people paying the rate that you want to pay. And also we talk to a lot of therapists that are already doing well. You know, it's not that your business has to be in a bad place or you don't have enough clients to do this work. A lot of our therapists that we work with are doing well. They do have a appropriate caseload, but they're making decisions about their life now. Like some of them have been doing work 12 and 15 years and they're like, I wanna see less clients actually. I wanna spend more time with my kids, but I'd like to charge a little bit more. And I'd also like to work with people I really wanna work with, or I want to start building a team. I wanna actually scale that. My caseload and increase the caseload of the people that I'm bringing on to support the business. So, not only are they like building a brand for themselves, but they're starting to build a culture. And you know that having a group practice is, it's also, you know, beneficial to the people that work for you because your brand and your business is attracting people on their behalf too. Right. I mean, I can't tell you how many times I've asked a client, how did you find me? Why me? I always ask, why me? And they always tell me nine times out of 10, your website spoke to me. The way that you present your business and the way that you talk really spoke to me. And I will tell you to this day, those are the clients that I have still, what, 10 years later. And I think it's important to think about, you know, we talked about pricing, you know, about, you know, self-pay versus insurance paying clients, et cetera. It's, it's not just even about the money. It's about getting clients that are in alignment with who you are and the work you want to be doing in the world. Because when I think about my website back. In 2015 to now, how we present, it's totally different. Back then in 2015, I was just trying to get clients in the door. In now 2023, I'm trying to build a business that can outlive me, a business that can offer different things to the community, not just therapy, a business that can sustain me when I need to take a step back, right? And I have things that I can still have living on on my website that people will go to, even when I'm not around. And so. I don't think that therapists think about that, right? When you're first getting started, it's kind of like, I just need to get clients in the door. How can I sound really great, really fast and just get clients to schedule with me? And that's important, right? But if you want your life's work to be this private practice, you're building a brand that can outlive you. Yeah, I love that you shared that. And that's so true. And that is really what I mentioned, in the setting yourself up for future successes. And I understand doing what you need to do, like I said in the beginning, to get going, but your brand could and could evolve and grow with you. So sometimes kind of the pushback from the world in general, I don't wanna create a brand till I know exactly what I'm doing and who I'm gonna work with. And I wanna be in business a couple of years because what if I write all this stuff and I design this website and it's no longer valid? And really kind of our pushback on that is if you do create a brand that is truly a reflection of who you are, captures your essence, it should very easily be flexible and evolve and grow with you. And it's just about, I do this every year actually, but every year or two going back onto the website and just fine tuning the copy a little bit. Like you may start out and say, I work with, you know, families, couples and individuals and singles or whatever it is. Of casting a wide net. And then as you get going, you're like, you know, I actually love working with couples. I love working with couples that are going through these things. And you start to refine and refine and it doesn't mean everything needs to be scrapped. It's just, we're just adjusting copy. The look and feel of the brand could and should stay the same because... I actually see that as a kind of a mistake that people make as they change who they are so often and what they look like that they confuse people. And we want to make it really clear again, like what you do exactly, who you work with, even though we may start to filter that down and refine that. But people again, want to know they're in the right place and they want to know you're the expert for that thing. So it's okay to start to create and think about your brand in the beginning And just know that you're always going to find soon. You're always going to refine. I know you mentioned your difference from 2015 to now. I mean, I literally rewrite our copy every couple of years because we get really clear on the people that show up for us and we start to see their needs specifically. And then we start to write, copy, and create content that is specifically for them. And it's a really beautiful thing. It's just the progression and evolution of the business and brand. And it's just nice, if you can, to work with somebody to create a brand that has more longevity, because it's just going to save you money in the end, because you're not having to scrap everything and hire a new designer, writer, branding agency every few years. A lot of our clients have had their websites and brands for a very long time. And they don't look three years old, five years old, six years old, whatever they are, because they're really thoughtful and beautiful. And I think for therapists too, within your space, you have such a unique opportunity because. You know, I say this lovingly, but unfortunately a lot of people don't think to do this work. So there is such an opportunity to stand out. You said with your clients that found you because they liked your brand and that are actually still with you. I mean, that is invaluable because they felt connected to you five years ago, 10 years ago, or whatever it is, and they're still with you because that initial impact. An impression that you made on them was so strong that it is still living with them. And, you know- Because I am consistent with what they bought into, right, in the first place. And I think that happens too, where therapists might present themselves a certain way online, but then when someone gets in the door or they get to know you, it's a mismatch, right? I always say to folks too, don't present in a way that you think other people want you to show up, right? If I create a brand because I think that's how my clients want me to be, but then our work together is totally different because what I built is not authentic to me, that can be really harmful for you and your clients in the longterm. And like you said, then you'd have to invest kind of rebuilding, rebranding. Anyway, yeah, we're big cheerleaders of doing it right the first time and and again like we would never let our clients present something that wasn't them because we have a set process for Kind of getting all that information from them in the beginning and diving really deep to like who the audience is Like what things are they experiencing? What are some of the outcomes they can expect from working with you? And we kind of reverse engineer the copy of like, this is what somebody going through these things would need to know from you in order to make the decision to work with you. So again, what you said of showing up as themselves is so key to this work. And really a brand is just a gigantic exercise and intention setting. Like your brand is a giant intention. It's like, I wanna work with these people. This is how I wanna show up in the world. And this is the work I'm doing. And making your brand a reflection of these things. And I know that sounds very daunting, but that is why we help our clients do that so that those things, those key elements really come through so they can again, connect with the people that are the right fit, the people that are gonna stay with them, the people that are willing to pay what they require in order to feel like they thrive in their business. We did not start our businesses to struggle. We started our businesses to thrive. And we talk to our clients a lot about that as like feeling very supported in your business. What do you need to feel supported in your business? And really creating that alignment between business, brand, and self. And all three of those things, we have a graphic that we use a lot in our proposals and in our presentations, we talk about on our blog, that's all three of those elements and a triangle and all three of them really supporting each other. So your business should be a reflection of your passions, your expertise, your experience. Your business needs to be supporting the life that you want to live and your brand needs to be a reflection of the work that you're doing in the world. And it's creating those alignment between those three things is really where the magic happens and where that magnetism happens and where those people that are meant to work with you can find you and show up. And again, back to the visibility piece. Yeah, I just think there's so much cool things that happen. It's not even, well, of course we want brands to look beautiful and sound beautiful, but it's really the work behind the brand that is the magic. And your brand is really your ultimate vision board. It's that thing that's out there in the world 24-7 communicating on your back when people can't, you know, call you. They're on their beds at night and their laptop researching who they want to call the next day and what therapist might be a right fit for them. You're not going to be there to say, you know, hey, here's the things that I do. You want to be able to have them make that decision without you being there. So there is like like this incredible thing that happens when they are able to connect with you. Without actually like connecting with you on a call. And again, it's like painting a vision for what you want for your business, what you want for your life and having your brand reflect those things. I mean, one of the things that I did when I started my group practice in 2018 was hire a coach to help me get clarity about the group practice that I wanted to build, because it was different than the private practice that I was building. And so I love that you and your team have a process at the beginning to like really flesh that out because that is the thing that I will say almost every therapist I work with does not do. That's the step that they skip. And it's the foundational step to actually sit down with yourself and get clarity about, okay, what is this business? What am I building? Why am I building it? Who is it for? How do I wanna speak that out into the world? What does it look like? What does it sound like? Like a very visceral process is like sit down with a journal, have some prompts with you, have someone that you can talk through it with. And I did a four hour intensive with a coach right before I launched. And that was what we did together. We talked about values. We talked about colors and feel and ideal clients and pricing and mission vision. All of those things that I didn't even think about because I was just so, I was so consumed by. Making money getting clients in the door that that whole beginning step. I was about to leave it out and, Probably would not be I would not be where I'm at today if I didn't get clear about that. Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, I get survival mode is usually where we start out. You're just you know scared, You're like I need to make money. I need client, but that is really where we start with our clients The first exercise we do is called getting clear and creating your vision So it's getting clear on the components of your business again, like, why are you creating this? Why do you want to do this? What is the vision for the business? So we do that exercise, we do a vision exercise. And then we go through all the big things. We do like business foundations, brand foundations, like the components of your business that really need to come through, the components of your brand that really need to come through. And then a big thing we talk about at the end of projects is, you know, now that you have this brand that looks like you, sounds like you, speaks directly to the people you want to work with, you're super jazzed about it. You're ready to go. Really taking intentional action that is in alignment with the brand that we created for you. And there is a certain magnetism and energy that we create with a brand that automatically will start connecting you to those people. But it is about taking some type of aligned action to connect with those people. So we just suggest to our client taking two or three things that they feel called to do to really get in front of the right people. So. Yes, we want you to launch your brand. It'll be out there. It'll be doing the work that it's going to be doing. But is it that you feel passionate about creating content? Do you actually like sending newsletters? Are you committed to potentially ramping up social media? Do you want to add content on LinkedIn? Is none of that for you? Would you love to speak on podcasts? Would Would you love to be part of panels? Like doing things that also make yourself visible is super important to this process. But the great news is once somebody does find out about you and they land back on your brand and on your website, they'll be like, this is it. This is the person you wanna work with. Yeah, it becomes a partnership, a collaboration, a friendship. Yeah, and that's the other thing is that when people ask like, okay, well, how do you get speaking opportunities or how do you get these opportunities to collaborate and have partnerships with other organizations in town. Nice seat. Truly, they just find us. I mean, they find us and they there's something about our brand and our business that speaks to them and what they're needing. And we're here to serve. That's what we're here to do. And you better believe there's a spot on our website for them to contact us and reach out, you know, so it's such an extension of you. It's so personal. And I know as someone who didn't have a lot of financial resources when I first. With starting my business, I can empathize with that pain point of wanting someone's support to help design a website and get really clear and all of that, but also not having the resources to do that right away. What would you say to someone who is in that spot right now? Yeah, absolutely. And that's what I keep kind of saying during this is like, I get it. I get not having the budget at this point in time. But I think what you said that that. Clarity piece, that vision piece, do that. Therapists are very smart humans. Like they know what they're doing, like the back of their hand. It's just writing the copy is kind of always a holdup. So potentially like working with somebody at least to craft the copy, I would always suggest at some point, you know, hiring somebody that is, it's the visuals that usually like kind of spark the interest. And then it's the language that really like backs up that interest. So do what you need to do to get your business going, but I do feel like it's a worthy investment at some point to work with somebody. You know, working with somebody like you is amazing. We actually have pulled out all of our process, except for us, you know, writing the copy and designing everything for our clients and put that into like a chorus. So that people can at least work through the questions that we have, to think about the things they need to include in their writing, to think about what they want their business. To look like, to also think about what they want their copy to sound like, and to also really start to plan what are the two or three things I need to be doing to cast the net that I want to cast for my business. So finding some type of program or assistance or framework that is aligned with your values that can help you, depending on where you're at in your process, so that when you are ready to invest, you can elevate to this level of branding that we're talking about that you have, which is also one of the reasons we're talking now as a brander. I loved your brand. And I know we know a lot of the same people, but I always flagged your branding because I'm like, she gets it. She really cares. And she understands the value of branding. So ultimately, we want, and I think you want this too, is all the people that you work with and we work to get to the level of the brand that we're talking about. Because again, it's just. Will accelerate their business. They'll get more of the clients that they want sooner. They'll be able to charge what they want quicker. They'll have more visibility to your point of how do you get speaking gigs? How do you get people to reach out to you? How do you become like somebody who writes articles or gets asked to do things that is because of a brand? That's like somebody lands on your website and they're like, Oh, this is an expert in this space. And it's not about tricking people. I'd always tell clients this, that like when we create the brands the way that we create them for our clients, people can't tell if you've been doing this work, you know, six months or six years. And again, it's not about fooling people, but it's giving that level of credibility and validity so early on that they just don't care. They're just like, this is the person I feel good about hiring this person. I want to ask this person to speak on my podcast. I want, you know, to partner with this person. I want to ask this person to be part of my team. So there's just a lot of cool stuff that happens with this work. But yeah, I would say if you don't have. A budget now to find, you know, someone that has some type of program that can help them get there. I mean, coaches are amazing to work with. I have a coach. I've always had a coach. If you have a business, you need to not just be talking to yourself. That's for sure. Because you only know what you know, you know, how would you know anything else? It's the hiring other experts that really gets you to where you want to be. And it's the exact The exact same thing that therapists ask of their clients is to hire them, work with them, and they'll help them move from this place to this place. So there's actually a lot of parallel in the work that we do and the work that clients do with their audience. Yeah, I totally agree. I'm such a fan of outsourcing and getting help, right? And I think that's why Brave and Well exists is because I want to support other professionals because there's not a lot of support for therapists in the business world of things. And so if you can't invest right away, your branding, your marketing is the one thing you should be saving for right away. You know, invest in yourself, it will go a long way first. I think about clients who are like, well, I need to get like really cute office furniture and a nice couch. And it's like, well, you're not gonna need a couch if you don't have any ideal clients sitting on it, you know? So it's like, save for the things that you can invest in yourself and your business that will take you in the long run, that is what the priority is, right? Getting like fun business cards is not the priority. It's what is your brand? What are you trying to communicate to the world? And how can you get folks in the door that bring you joy, right, and that make you feel good? And I highly, I always say this, outsource, outsource, outsource, because we can't do it all. and we're just not experts in everything and that's okay. That is totally okay. Yeah and going back to it's just like such a unique opportunity that therapists have when they do do this work and it is done thoughtfully and intentionally is that it can like people will land on your website and call you because there is a lot of I mean we really saw kind of a jump and just as somebody who works with a lot of clients in a space of like therapists who started calling us after pandemic, you know, like during the pandemic, everyone kind of went out on their own. The market and the industry got very saturated of everybody having their own practices, more therapists than ever, but also more people needing to be connected to, therapists than ever. So yes, there is a lot of therapists, but there's also more people that are. Talking about therapy that are open to therapy. Like I don't have a lot of friends anymore that do not have a therapist. So there is a need to connect these people. So there is such an opportunity once you make this investment and take this step and really make yourself visible to the world for those people to start to show up. And it's just so cool when I talk to a lot of our clients that are very timid in the beginning about this branding process. Like we have this. One therapist who I'm obsessed with that I love more than anything, who has been like a 15 year industry veteran. She's like a shop therapist, never had had a website, never had done branding, like was very scared about putting herself out there. Or she was weaning off insurance, but wanted to charge a premium because she does at this point in her career, she's, you know, she's a badass. She's the woman you go to, you know, her goal was like to really set herself up for success in the next stage of her career. You know, this is something she wants to do another 10 years, but like this is kind of her big push. And she was so scared to do this work. And you know, we launched her brand, and she's like, What do I do? What do I do? And we kind of coached her on, you know, send the emails, but just be consistent with the language that you're putting out in the world, the messaging you're putting out in the world, it doesn't have to be this huge endeavor. But just like, again, there is an energetic component to branding that naturally starts to take effect. But it's just so cool to talk to people like her six months in after we do the branding project and even like a year out of just like. It's my situation has totally changed because it's also like a mental shift that happened for her like I am valuable I am worth charging this much I am also worth being selective of the clients that I work with I've been doing this work for 15 years I want to work with people that I can really make an impact with but yeah I talked to her the other day and she's like I have better client I'm charging what I want I've weeded out the people that you know were kind of the stragglers that I had, like legacy clients that were paying old rates that I really didn't. Necessarily enjoy or get all the fulfillment that I would want to with. And she's like, people are reaching out to me because they see my website and they think, no, I'm this expert in this space. I'm being asked to be on panels, to write articles, to be a part of bigger conversations. And literally all that happened was, not all that happened, but we created a really beautiful, thoughtful brand for her that showed who she was to the world and speaks directly to the people she wanted to work with. And within a year, her whole business shifted, her whole mindset shifted, her energy shifted. Yeah, it's just, I believe in it so much. And it's just so cool to see. And we just have a case after case after case of that happening to clients. And you had it happen with you too. And so that's why I'm so passionate about talking about this, because it's something that people see as a nice to have, not a must have. Right. And when there is an investment, it's like putting skin in the game. I'm investing in myself. Your brand is a beautiful gift that you give to you. It's not necessarily... You giving it to the world. It's like, I'm doing this because I believe in myself, and I believe in my business, and I believe in the work that I'm doing. And I want to show up as my self so that the right people can find me and engage with my business. And it always happens. I've never had a client say, I wish I hadn't done that. I wish I hadn't done this work. It was wasted money. They always are like, it was hard. And that's another thing with therapists. And that's, this is fine. You know, it was hard when I first got a coach, but you know, sometimes they've never made an investment like this in their business. And it feels like a big amount, but also when you don't have a brick and mortar, you know, when you're all virtual and some of our clients, they're split, you know, some of them have spaces, some of them don't, but this is all that you have out in the world. Again, like this is your, vision board for your brand. It is your office, essentially, you know, your website is your office. It's the only thing besides potentially like psychology today, but it's like raising your hand, that you exist. So it is an important investment. And, and I just. Think people don't, you know, we just don't think about it, but you know, you have to have an accountant, you know, you have to, there are certain things you have to have in your business. And a brand is one of those things, whether you work up to the level of brand that we would create, or that you're used to having, or you kind of at least start to implement that like clarity and visioning piece and, and starting to think, what do I want to look like and maybe getting some better photos taken, like, again, like, what will make them feel like they met you like they were connected to you and making sure again, you're not just rattling off credentials and qualifications and education. Yes, that's important. But I think for the most part, I would say, you know, this speaking from the Therapists that we speak to and the ones we work with they're all highly qualified They're all amazing at what they do, but you know the websites that they had before we worked with them. I. Love them but like I wouldn't make any I would it just is a total disconnect of like there are these Badasses and this is what is being perceived about them. And it's just again. There's a lack of an alignment, right? Gosh, I love everything you're saying and Kristen gets it y'all she gets it I mean, and what you said earlier about like, even if you're someone who's been in the field for 10 years, five years, and you're just needing to kind of like, get back in the groove or feel like this is not serving me anymore, I really need to start owning my brand and my business more. You're a perfect fit for working with someone like Kristen in Design Good because I think there is something about the way that you show up. We show up differently when we feel good about what we have standing behind us. You know, right now I'm a stage where I'm talking about like a lot of self-care and sustainability and how do we start making this work sustainable for our life, seeing less clients, but also not, you know, also making a good living and living a life that we deserve. And I think this helps you set yourself up for not just clients that are in alignment with you, but also opportunities that will light you up and give you the energy to go back to your clients and do good work with them. And so, and I've seen the websites that you and your team have created for my therapist friends and they're beautiful, they're amazing. They are hands down, just like some of the best that I've seen. And so I know that you all get it. And I love that this is now a resource that I can share with everyone because we all need that. I'm just so thankful that you were here talking about this. It's not something we talk about enough, really, truly. I think people just kind of go in and they just go in running and they're like, they don't even think about who they are as a business at all. Yeah. And I love that you're a resource for therapists too. It's just, yeah, that's why I think we're both passionate about talking about these things because we see the difference that it makes. And, you know, to your point, it is like buying a nice outfit, you know, an outfit that makes you feel really confident. You just talk differently. You walk differently when you feel like, I'm proud of this thing that I'm putting out into the world and I can show up as myself because there is actually this like component, this is exterior shield that is communicating who I am accurately. So yeah, everything that you said too, is perfect. Well, Christian, how can people find you? Yeah. So designgood.com is our website. And also, you know, it's a great place. If you go to our work within our website, we do have a drop down and you can select therapist and you can kind of see some of the brands we've created. And that can act as like inspiration of where I'm headed, like what I should include in a website, because we do have a very set process in how we work and how we write and the information that we pull when we are talking to clients. And even though So we have so many therapist clients and a lot of clients within the similar spaces. I think when you visit our website and look at our portfolio, you can see that everybody looks and sounds completely differently because everybody needs to look and sound like themselves. And I think that is something we're really good at is capturing people's essence and. Their voice and also what they look like visually. I think that's that thing that's so hard for people to do is like, what do I look like? And we have a really set process for kind of drawing up a whole client. So that is a great source of inspiration. And also like, you know, just doing some research, we have a lot of content on our website that we've created just for therapists of like blog posts about the things to look for. We do have, again, like I mentioned, a course that is just our process pulled out. Like if you don't want to, or cannot hire at this point, it at least lets you work through all the questions that we would ask our clients. It's literally the exact same process that we take our clients through, except we're not writing and designing for you. So that's a very valuable. Yeah, get on our newsletter. We send out blog posts and information every week that is really targeted to our clients. Again, of like thinking about their business and their life as much as we do their brand, because again, those things are inseparable for us. They all should support each other. So you'll see a lot of our language really talking about all three of those things. But yeah, online, on Instagram, we're around. Awesome, and I'll link all of that in the show notes so that you all have that information to go back to. Kristen, thank you so much. I really appreciate this, and I'm really grateful for you to come on and share all your wisdom and just the fact that you get it. I think, again, it's just really hard to find people who understand what we need, and it's such a great resource. So thank you so much. Yeah, and thank you. I'm just so honored to actually get to meet you in person. I know we're on Zoom, but yes, I really respect and love what you're doing in the world. And so it was an honor for me to talk to you and it feels like we're very aligned in the things that we say. We definitely are. So I love hearing somebody else that also gets it in this space. Yeah, thanks so much. Of course. All right, y'all. I know that getting clear about your brand and who you are is really challenging. And it can be, especially if you're just getting started and you're feeling unsure about the language that you want to put out into the world or how you want to present online and on social media, on your website, et cetera. And so you don't have to look any further. My workbook, Laying the Foundation for Your Private Practice, has several exercises in them that helps you get clear about your why, helps you define your values, helps you craft a mission and vision statement, helps you identify your ideal client, all so that you can turn those exercises into copy for your website. You don't even have to think about it yourself in terms of what do I write? It's you going through these exercises and translating exactly what you wrote from yourself, from your heart, straight onto your website. So if you want to get started and invest back into your business, invest back into yourself so that you can retain clients that not only wanna work with you, but that you wanna work with too, buy my book, my workbook. You can get it at braveandwell.com. Just click book and it's there. All right, talk to you soon. Music. Thank you so much for listening to the Brave & Well podcast. You can find links and resources from this episode the show notes at www.braveandwell.com. If you enjoyed this episode. Music. Then send it to a friend. For free resources, special announcements and discount codes, subscribe to our newsletter at braveandwell.com forward slash newsletter dash Sign up. Music.