Brave and Well: Conversations helping mental health professionals build a sustainable, profitable, and values-aligned business

Imposter Syndrome as Therapists & Entrepreneurs with Pearl Bryant of Pinnacle of Purpose Counseling

• Vanessa Newton • Season 1 • Episode 24

Share episode

Today on Brave and Well podcast, I’m joined by Pearl Bryant, LCSW-S to discuss the importance of community building for breaking down stigmas surrounding mental health and entrepreneurship.

Pearl Bryant has 15+ years of experience in the social work field. She is the Owner + Founder of Pinnacle of Purpose Counseling + Consulting, PLLC a group therapy practice committed to serving women of color. Pearl is also a Clinical Supervisor and Lecturer at The University of Houston-Downtown.

In this episode, Pearl shares her journey of becoming a therapist and entrepreneur, and we touch on the challenges and lessons learned during the COVID-19 pandemic, including the need for flexibility and reevaluating traditional business practices.

Tune in as we explore:

  • Being out in the community to break stigma
  • Learning from imposter syndrome as an entrepreneur
  • Internalized oppress & its impact on marginalized communities
  • Healing trauma & it’s impact on business
  • Personal & profession growth
  • Transitioning to an abundance mindset


More from Pearl:


More from Vanessa:

Hi, everyone. Welcome to the Brave and Well podcast. I'm your host, Vanessa Newton. I'm a group practice owner and social worker. I'm also a Latina entrepreneur, mom, and recovering perfectionist. On this podcast, we teach mental health professionals how to build sustainable, profitable, and values aligned businesses. Here, you'll hear all about decolonizing the business side of private practice and supporting the entrepreneur and the therapist. We'll. Music. Also invite fellow therapists and healers to share their stories. Our time together will be raw, honest, vulnerable, and held together by joy. If you like what you hear, subscribe to our newsletter at braveandwell.com slash newsletter dash sign up. Thank you for listening. Music. In today's episode, I'm talking to a dear friend and colleague of mine, Pearl Bryant. Pearl Bryant has 15 plus years of experience in the social work field. She's the owner and founder of Pinnacle Purpose Counseling and Consulting, PLLC, a group therapy, practice committed to serving women of color. Pearl is also a clinical supervisor and lecturer at the University of Houston downtown. Music. Community. And I think it's important to be out in the community, right? Especially with us being 100% virtual, you know, our clients don't really get to see us. And so being out in the community gives us the opportunity to be out, right, and talk and engage with our people and for our community to really get to know who we are. Our target population black and brown community. And so with that, it's so much stigma around it, right? And so one of my strategies is to be out in the community so that we do appear relatable, right? So that we can break down that wall a little bit and that people get to see that we're people too. You know, we like to laugh and eat snow cones and do the Cupid shuffle. We like to do those things too, right? and that's a part of self-care. So it kind of all ties in together, which is why community work is so important. I think it's genius, Pearl. I mean, I see you and you inspire me. I'm like, we need to do more in the community. We need to like table at events. And I think I just take for granted that we haven't done that for so long, right? And have gotten referrals, but I feel like now we need to work for these referrals. It's different. I mean, the climate is different, especially self-pay clients. Like to retain those is a lot harder. And so, well, I hit record because we were just talking, but I was. I want to go back and just ask you, who are you and what do you do? What's the work you do? Okay. So my name is Pearl Bryant. I am a licensed clinical social worker and I am a board approved clinical supervisor. I've been a social worker for 16 years. I've worked, I mean, in all capacities. I've worked in the hospital setting, residential treatment facilities. I've done a little bit of psychiatric care, going into the psychiatric hospitals here in the Houston area. And five years ago, I was like, you know what? I'm ready to bring my whole self to a space. And to be honest with you, five years ago, I wasn't really sure what that was going to look like, but I knew that I just wanted to breathe, if you will. Like, I just wanted to be able to be Pearl without all of the red tape and then still help people. And so at that time I was doing clinical supervision. I was like, okay, I'll just do clinical supervision on the side in this business. And then it just really kind of took a life of its own, because I had learned all of these concepts and this terminology that had helped me grow and get through some difficult times in my life. And I wanted to bring that to the community. And so that's how I was able to create Pinnacle of Purpose Counseling and Consulting in April of 2018 and we just, we've been growing, you know, we've been growing ever since then. Yeah, and for those of you listening, I have known Pearl since 2007. 2007, yeah. That's right, we went to grad school together at U of H and we worked together at Memorial Hermann in Houston, Texas. So I've known Pearl for a long time, I've seen her grow so much And now she's a group practice owner and has a team, a virtual team now, virtual therapy in Texas. So, which I think is so, there's another therapist that I know in McAllen who has a virtual practice, but only recently opened a very small office. She's like, I'm just gonna dip my toe, like kind of like you, like I am not gonna go all in on this because Lord knows, I don't know what's gonna happen in this world, but I'm not putting all my money, all my pennies in one basket. No, absolutely not. Yeah, and I think that that's a great business decision, a great business decision. I think COVID, we learned a lot of things, right? When I say we, I mean entrepreneurs, group practice owners. It really did challenge us to be flexible, learn how to pivot and be comfortable with pivoting. And I think we came out of it just deciding to do things a little differently. Really looking at the numbers. Because before, I feel like when you went into private practice, it's like, okay, you have to have an op. OK, you have to have a directory. There was this checklist that you had to go by, right, in order to be a successful group practice owner. Whereas COVID really did teach us to look at things a little differently and look at that overhead, right? I think that's a really great business decision for her. Yeah. Yeah, I think you're right. I mean, we've learned so much as entrepreneurs. And when I think about conversations you and I have had or other entrepreneurs in this work as therapists. I'm thinking about like the imposter syndrome that comes up over and over again. I mean, we've been doing this for a long time and it still presents itself. And so it's a conversation I have a lot and I'm curious for you to kind of share how it has manifested in your journey as a group practice owner, as an entrepreneur and just like growing your business and starting your business. Yeah, you know, it's so funny that, you know, we're talking about imposter syndrome today because even with, you know, my clients, right, that I work with, I work with a lot of mental health clinicians, a lot of entrepreneurs. And you know, the first thing that I explained to them is this is a thing that will always be present, right? And it's something that you have to get comfortable with and recognize that that is what is happening in that moment and learn how to speak to it, right? Like making friends with the beast, if you will, because at every stage of growth, there's always going to be this doubt, like, am I right for this? Do people want to hear what it is that I have to say? Am I knowledgeable enough? What if I don't have the information that I need in order for my business to be successful? But once you are able to rebuttal those thoughts, then you become more comfortable with positioning yourself and moving yourself to the next level. And so I can say that when I told family and friends that I was starting a private practice in 2018. I can't tell you how many looks I got. And so, I was like, okay, now how are you going to do that? Because at the time I was newly divorced. Right. I was a single mom with three children, two dogs, and a mortgage. And it really did create in me this huge fear that I was not going to be able to be successful, but for whatever reason, I just kind of kept going because at that point I was curious. I was like, okay, well, I've told 10 people, nine and a half of them kind of looked at me me a little sideways, let's see if we can get this thing going. And so that's just a perfect example of how I was able to rebuttal that doubt that I felt and that was fed to me. Whether it was my family or friends or people around me were subconsciously doing it or consciously doing it. And one thing that I learned was that I I had to be very careful with what I shared and when I shared it, because people can only support you, at the capacity that they have to dream. And so if your thought process is you get a good job, you stay at that job for the next 50 years, you build your retirement, and here I am a single mom, newly divorced, with a mortgage, barely making it myself, and I'm telling you that I'm about to start a business, your responses are not going to be. You know, supportive responses, right? And it does not mean that you don't love me or support me, but that's just your capacity at that time. And so I really had to learn how to safeguard what I wanted to do and find a good time to share that with those around me because I didn't need people to project their fears onto me because I was already battling enough of them on my own. I'm so glad that you're talking about that because I think it's also a cultural thing, right? Like for me growing up in a Mexican household with a mom who had been in an abusive relationship, was a single mom, it was all about you need to find some security in your life, you need to have stability, you need to always know where your next dollar's coming from and you need to be successful so that you can pay the bills, right? And there was no room for creativity, taking risks, not working, trying to see what it is that you wanted to do, like the process of discovery. And so I think when we tell family members, and I'm hearing that in your story too, it's like, wait a minute, that sounds very risky, not stable, and very unsure. What are you doing? Right, they're looking at you sideways. And I mean, I'm not very risk-averse, like I'll take risks all day, right? That's why we're entrepreneurs, hello? Very few people in this world can do that. And so, yeah, it goes against everything that I was raised to create and to believe, is that you're doing the complete opposite. Mm-hmm. And I'm glad that you brought up that cultural piece, right? And one thing that I did mention in the introduction is that I'm adjunct faculty at the University of Houston downtown, and I talked to my students a lot about internalized oppression. And there are seven levels of oppression. There's interpersonal, there's interpersonal, cultural, institutional, structural, and the last one is internalized oppression. And basically what it says is, all of these systems, perspectives, right? They keep marginalized people right where they're supposed to be. And that's what you're talking about right now. And internalized oppression is you begin to believe what systems say that you're supposed to believe, right? You're held to institutional oppression where policies and procedures are set up so that you as a person of color are not able to exceed and excel the way that your counterparts are able to exceed and excel. You would start to believe that, right? You start to believe what you see, right? On television, my hair is supposed to be straight. I'm not supposed to wear hoop earrings because that's not professional. And it really shapes who you are and how you show up in these. Professional spaces and how you show up as an entrepreneur also, right? There are certain things that you just don't go after because you're operating from this very oppressive mindset. You've taken on all of these things that other people have said about you or what they show on the media. So that's a whole thing, right, for the Black and Brown community outside of the imposter syndrome and making sure that you understand when both of those things are working, okay? And being present, ever present in your space so that you can find a way to push past that. And asking yourself, whose message is this? Yes, that's it, Vanessa, that's it. Who is speaking right now? Is this my voice? Right? What I believe, or is this what I have been taught to believe, right? I've been conditioned to believe. And so it's just really important to be able to muddle through all of that, because what you'll find, a lot of it is not your own. Right, most of it. A lot of it, yeah, most of it is not your own. I mean, Pearl, I don't know about you, but when I was in grad school, and when I was in my internship, I didn't even know or think that private practice was an option for me. Yeah. Like, I just, my dream was to be a hospital social worker for the rest of my life. That's what I thought I wanted to do. And I just think, like, how is it that I wasn't taught that? Because I look at, you know, LPC counterparts and people nowadays in the counseling track, and that's all they talk about. I mean, they graduate grad school and they go straight into private practice. And I'm like, Is it about the system that I was in or the community that I was a part of? I don't know. What was happening that that wasn't even an option that came into my mind? Yeah, it just wasn't a conversation. Right, it wasn't a conversation. Yeah, it wasn't a conversation, which is why I think it's so important for people who look like me and you to be having these conversations so that the new social workers coming, they're able to see the possibilities, right? They're able to see all of the opportunities that are out there and they're encouraged, motivated to flex their creative muscle. And I just don't remember when we were in grad school having those visuals. I just don't remember that. And I honestly don't know what it was about, but it just wasn't there. Yeah, I agree. I think about that often now at this stage of my life and why, like you said, why I do what I do, the clinical supervision, the coaching, the mentorship, it's all because I want people like me, black and brown folks to say, this is possible. Right, it is possible. This is not being an entrepreneur, having your own practice, building a great business and having a life that you deserve is possible. Right, it is possible, but which is one of the reasons why I stay in the community. Because I don't ever want people to feel like or young social workers to feel like you have to have this certain level of disconnection in order to achieve the things that I've achieved. You can have all of those things that you mentioned and then still be successful. That's right. I'm so glad you brought up- Whatever success looks like for you. Yeah, that word is so loaded, for sure. Yes, it is. Yes, it is. Oh my gosh. I know, and I think right now what I'm seeing is that a lot of my imposter syndrome, a lot of my self-doubt, a lot of the shame that's coming up for me is very, it's very embedded in my trauma history too, right? Like the generational trauma and the trauma that I have experienced as a child and growing up and how, you know, just thinking about how we can't use our businesses to heal our trauma, right? Because it's all gonna play out. It's all gonna play out in your business if you don't heal it either before or as you are going through it. Right, because starting a business, it highlights all of those little spaces that you've tried to keep to yourself, like all of those little dark little spaces that you've tried to keep to yourself. When you start a business, I mean, that thing is magnified, right? It is on display for not only you to see, but everybody else to see, right? And so, I like you saying, you have to heal some of that stuff as you position yourself to do the work because a lot of what we do is solving problems. A lot of what we do is conflict resolution. And so if you yourself have not learned how to have a crucial conversation, or just how to communicate in general, when you position yourself as a leader and those moments come up and you think back to your 10-year-old self and how your mom communicated or how the adults around you communicated, if you're not careful, you'll show up in that way. You have to heal this, right? You have to make sure that you understand who you are becoming and make a conscious effort every day. To step further and further away from who you were and closer to who you want to become, right? You have to make a conscious effort and being intentional is so important in this work, because if you're not, then you risk showing up in a way that you didn't intend to. Right, right. And the impact is still there, regardless of your intention. Hey y'all, I'm interrupting this episode because I wanna make sure you know about my workbook. It's called Laying the Foundation for Your Private Practice. It's a workbook specifically for mental health professionals who wanna start or grow their private practices. Now, you can be anywhere at the stage of your business for this workbook to work for you. So you can either be in contemplation of starting your own private practice at the beginning stages of starting your practice, or even an established group practice owner or private practice owner who just wants to refine and revise your vision, mission, and values. Over 80 pages of practical exercises and worksheets that cover everything from writing your mission and vision statement to exploring the practicalities of your financials, your ideal client, your streams of revenue. And even creating a self-care plan for yourself. So this is the perfect companion for any therapist, at any stage of private practice. I'm taking all of my experience over the years of mentoring many therapists as they begin their entrepreneurial journey to launch their own private practices. You can buy the workbook at www.braveandwell.com forward slash workbook, or just go to braveandwell.com and click on the tab that says book. Now on to the show. Music. I'm curious how your trauma, your healing has showed up in your business and how either it's impacted it, whether it's good or bad or whatever, but maybe you didn't realize that it was going to play out and it did. You know, it's so interesting because you do all of this healing, right? And then you feel like you've gotten to the other side. I'm healed. I'm good. And then as you go into, you know, entrepreneurship, other things start to surface with family, with friends, right? And it's almost like the universe is testing you to see if you are who you say you are. Right. Right. And so, one thing that I can speak to in terms of my trauma, to be honest with you, I've still experienced trauma as I've grown this business, relationship trauma. Whether it's with friends or intimate partners or family members. And I would think to myself, okay, these are the things that I am talking to my clients about. And here I am, I'm experiencing said thing, right? And I've had to really reshape or reframe how I think about those experiences because they help me to be better in this space. They help me to be patient. They help me to extend grace. They help me to identify how I'm showing up in every space that I occupy in the leadership role, as a therapist, as a social work professor, and really challenge myself to, number one, identify my blind spots, okay? And then two, determine, is that how I want to show up? Because the reality is there may be some conflict, but that's exactly what I intended to do, you know? That's right. That's exactly what I intended to do because I want to be forward moving, right? And then the pieces that I don't like. I have the option to go back and rethink that and come into the space as a different person. So I definitely think that those traumas or negative interactions will always happen. Because as you grow personally, you also grow professional, right? As you grow personally, you also grow professionally. And one assists the other. Yep. I mean, and entrepreneurship is so personal. It is. You are giving, you are putting your whole self into it. And I think about how my journey and my healing and my past traumas and current traumas showed up as a solo practice owner, but now as a group practice owner, It is 10 times harder, and it's like popping up left and right, especially when you lead people, when you support people, when you're the decision maker of all the things, when you are the person that people are going to you for everything. The money piece of running a business and what comes up with that, the visibility and exposure you start to have when people start to see you in a certain light. You know, all of that brings up so much and I for me it does and I'm still trying to navigate it and I I realize things all the time where I'm like, wow, I need to work on that. Like that something's coming up for me and I have not felt this before or realized it in this way before. What do I need to know? What is this telling me? Yeah, I like that. And then even going back to what you mentioned earlier, or understanding is this what you believe about yourself or is this a belief that has been put upon you, right? And really determining which one it is so you can make a decision on how you want to move in that situation. And I share with people all the time. One of the other reasons I know for a fact my family was a little concerned is because I'm a free spirit, right? You cannot be that way in business. You have to be a little bit more organized. You have to be a little bit more detail oriented. And so that wasn't only a concern for my family. That was a concern for myself as well. Like, am I going to be able to organize my thoughts, my time, right? So that I can show up consistently. And so really getting to a point where, okay, I'm going to try you down and see, leaving space for a little error. But then five years later, now having the conversation. Of yes, you can still be a free spirit, but then as a leader, be detail oriented. Both of those things can exist, right? And understanding when one of those personalities has to show up is really important, but not putting myself in a position where I'm not going to try because that has historically been who I am, right? And so often people get caught up in that. Well, you know, I struggle with, you know, consistency. I'm a procrastinator. How am I going to run a business? Well, I believe that with a little time and a little effort, those things can be changed if you really want to change them, right? So not being so stuck in. Who we have been personally and letting that hinder us from who we want to be professionally is huge. Absolutely. We have to get out of our own way. Get out of our own way. Because I mean, listen, after I got a divorce, I mean, it was chaotic, you know, and I talked to women about this all the time. I didn't know what bills to pay. I was like a fish out of water. If you would have told me eight years ago that I would be a group practice owner where I'm carrying all of this responsibility, I would have told you you were lying. Because that's just who I was. That's who I had always been. I had never had to have this amount of responsibility. I just, for whatever reason. And so I just say that to say... Getting out of your way is going to be the number one thing you can do in order to lean out of imposter syndrome into who you want to become. Yeah, I love that. When we think about abundance mindset, right, and how that's a part of your journey, like how do you think that's really helped you move into where you are today? Yeah, an abundance mindset. You know, you have to practice a lot of mindfulness in order to transition out of that scarcity mindset into that abundance mindset, right? And it goes back to that intentionality, being aware of the words that you speak. How was your day? Oh, I'm here. No, it's beautiful outside, right? The sun is shining. I get a chance to talk to my clients today. I get to look at my budget, making sure that we're leaning into all of the things that we have been afforded and not speaking from these things from a negative space. That's the first thing. How do we speak about the things that we've prayed for? How do we speak about the things that we have dreamt of, right? Because it is a huge responsibility and it can become very burdensome. You do sometimes tither on a line of burnout, but the best way to receive more is to express gratitude about the things that you already have. Managing it? And then making sure that you express gratitude about what you have because right now is what you dreamt about or you prayed about two, three, four years ago. And sometimes it just happens and we don't even realize it, but here we are complaining about it. Amen. Yeah. Amen. I mean, yeah. And we're not talking about this toxic positivity, right? We're not saying like everything has to be, you have to be grateful for everything. No, there's moments. There's a time and a place for everything. It is not lost on me or you that this journey of business ownership is hard. And there are days I want to quit it all. And there are days when I'm like, to hell with this. I'm gonna go work in Starbucks, you know? But you're so right that it's like, When I can take a step back and give myself a moment to acknowledge how I'm feeling, I'm feeling burnt out, I'm feeling overwhelmed, I'm feeling not appreciated, I'm feeling just tired and a little resentful. And if I can take a step back and say, out of all these things, what is true? What do I need to work through? And what can I let go of? And in the midst of that, what can I be grateful for as well? Because I have to move forward. I have to go into that next meeting or wake up the next day and still run this business. And I have to do those things. And so I can't stay stuck. I think that's the difference, right? That we can't stay stuck in those pieces. We have to learn how to move through them. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I like that. We cannot say stuff. Definitely give yourself a little bit of time, But when you are practicing this, Mindfulness, right and this gratitude you may want to go back to the basics and say, okay, I'm gonna get myself 24 hours. Boundaries around this Boundaries around that thing. I'm gonna give myself 48 hours to cuss and fuss and gripe and do all the things things that I need to do. But on Tuesday morning, I got to get up and I have to go, right? Because this is what I asked for. And I knew that it was going to be difficult and I knew that I was going to make mistakes. And I think that that's huge too. When you're operating from the abundance mindset, that does not necessarily mean that you're not going to make mistakes. It doesn't mean that you're not going to be angry, right? But what do you do when those mistakes happen, When that anger bubbles up, what do you do? What's your plan to manage those emotions so that you can keep going for sure? And I prayed for this. And I prayed for this. I chose this path. I chose this life. What am I going to do with it? And I worked my butt off. Heck yeah. That's right. I worked my butt off of this. Like this didn't just happen overnight. I didn't just say, oh, I want to be a group practice owner and voila, you know, I have. I built something from nothing. I built something from nothing, right? From nothing. And so because I was able to build something from nothing, I can keep going in this game. And I chose this so I have to figure out a way. Yeah, yeah, I have to figure out a way. Yeah, I think that this that that transitions you over into abundance, right? And out of the scarcity mindset, out of the imposter syndrome, out of the trauma, when you know that this is what you chose, right? And you are able to look at all of the outcomes. Maybe you weren't able to produce everything that you envisioned, but you have majority of what you envisioned. So you know that you can keep going and you know that there's more. You just have to keep working. Those are the two things I remind myself of often because I can really lose sight, and get stuck in the, just the hardship of it, you know? And feeling that exhaustion and overwhelm is that I chose this and I built something from nothing. So I have to keep going because failure is not an option for me because I want this. Because I want this, exactly. The day that I don't choose this anymore, then that's a different conversation. Exactly. But I still want this and I choose this. Yeah, I have three hashtags that I use. Work your work, right? That was W-E-R-K, your work, W-O-R-K. Work it out, right? Work your work. Slow and steady and brick by brick. I love that. Because that's essentially what we're doing. That's essentially what we're doing. Everything that you need, all of the skills, the talents, the creativity, the resources, you have it in you. You got to work that thing out. And brick by brick, you just take it brick by brick. This is a marathon, it's not a race. And if you do those three things, you will begin to see the fruits of your labor. That's right. Yeah. Oh, Pearl, I love this conversation. I always love our conversation. I love our conversations too. I really do. I just feel so inspired and always like, you know, it's just a reminder and this is why community is so important. And it's why it's also so important to have people in your life who understand the world of entrepreneurship, you know, and can have these conversations with. Right. And it's also important. Let me say this too, Vanessa. I wholeheartedly agree with you, but I think it's also important to have people in your space who knew you before you were you. Yeah, that's so true. Right? That's so true. Because people, when you're an entrepreneur, people just are meeting you today, right now. Right, right. And so they don't, some people, your followers and people who are invested in Brave and Well and Colors of Austin, they didn't really follow the growth, right? Yeah. They just see the outcome. But it's a different conversation, it's a different feeling when you can sit in spaces with people who knew you before you were you, right? And they know the work that you've put in to build what you have now. It's just very reaffirming. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I agree. And it's rare to have that. And it's rare to have that. Yeah, it's rare to have that. which is another reason why community is important, right? You're out working in the community now, five years from now, you may be on a completely different level, right? But you are building your people, you're building your tribe who are going to go with you on this journey. That's right. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. You're going to build your people who are going to go with you on this journey. So, this is always good. I always love having conversations with you. I love it. Thank you so much for being here, Pearl. How can people find you? How can they work with you? Tell us everything. Yes. So I am on Instagram. My personal professional page is the underscore social work therapist. The group practice, we're on Instagram as Pinnacle of Purpose. We're also on Facebook, Pinnacle of Purpose, and we just actually created a YouTube page. I'm really excited about that. I'm really excited about that and what that looks like for Pinnacle of Purpose, but it's Pinnacle of Purpose Counseling and Consulting. You can go and visit our website at www.PinnacleofPurposeCounseling.com. Just check us out, follow us, subscribe to our newsletter so that you can be in the know of all of the good things that we have coming. Awesome. Are you taking new clinical supervisees? I am. I am taking new clinical supervisees. I actually have four slots available. I just had one supervisee to take her test and we have a new LCSW that has been let loose out in the world. So I am super excited about that. And you know, even that is a journey, you know, I think that's my 16th supervised thing. Oh my gosh, girl. But it's so fun to watch them go. Yes, it is. Yes, yes, it is. And all of the great things that they're doing out in the community, for sure. I love that. OK, well, we'll link all of this in the show notes so that you all can have access to Pearl and her team and all the great work that they're doing, not just out in Houston, but in the state of Texas. So definitely check out their website and all of their social media platforms. Thank you again, Pearl. This was your book. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you all for listening to another episode of the Brave and Well podcast. Until next time, stay brave. Music. Special announcements and discount codes, subscribe to our newsletter at at bravenwell.com forward slash newsletter dash sign up. Music.